I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin

What if playing it safe is actually the riskiest marketing strategy of all? That's the provocative premise at the heart of my conversation with Udi Ledergor, former CMO and current Chief Evangelist at Gong, who shares the breakthrough strategies from his bestselling book "Courageous Marketing."

Udi reveals the counterintuitive truth that most marketers discover too late: following "best practices" (which he calls "boring practices") only delivers ordinary results. When you're competing for attention in crowded markets, ordinary is a death sentence. But there's an alternative approach that doesn't require massive budgets – just the courage to stand out.

From his journey taking Gong from startup to category leader, Udi shares tactical frameworks you can implement immediately. His "Punch Above Your Weight" strategy demonstrates how he created campaigns that appeared to cost millions while spending a fraction of that amount. Times Square billboards for hundreds of dollars? Super Bowl commercials for under $300,000? Udi breaks down exactly how he did it, and how you can too.

Perhaps most valuable is his insight on creating the psychological safety that marketing teams need to take creative risks. Drawing from research by Adam Grant and others, he explains how to balance creative experimentation with what he calls "process accountability" – ensuring all creative efforts align with business objectives.

For marketers drowning in a sea of sameness, Udi offers practical advice on carving out budget for experiments (he recommends 5-10% specifically for marketing tests), gaining leadership buy-in, and using customer conversation data to generate unique marketing insights. The content series "Gong Labs" is a perfect example – transforming pattern recognition from sales conversations into genuinely useful content that helped build an audience of nearly 300,000 LinkedIn followers.

As we navigate the AI era, Udi cautions against using technology merely to accelerate mediocrity. The truly human elements – surprising insights, unexpected angles, and genuine connection – remain the essence of breakthrough marketing.

Ready to take the boring out of B2B? Listen now and discover how to create marketing that doesn't just perform well, but stands out, sparks conversation, and drives extraordinary business results.

🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.

New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.

Catch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel.

👉 Subscribe, share, and connect with us at www.mightyandtrue.com

📩 Got a guest idea or question? Email us at kevin@mightyandtrue.com

🔗 Follow Kevin on LinkedIn for more insights and behind-the-scenes takes.

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I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin

What if 90% of your marketing budget is being stolen right in front of your eyes? In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Augustine Fou—MIT PhD and leading expert in digital ad fraud—reveals the shocking truth about how bots are quietly draining millions from marketing budgets, including those in B2B tech.

Having worked in digital advertising since the mid-90s, Dr. Fou explains how programmatic advertising created the perfect storm for fraud to flourish. Bad actors create thousands of websites with plagiarized or AI-generated content, purchase bot traffic, and sell ad impressions to advertisers at a profit. The fraud takes many forms: fake impressions, fraudulent clicks, form-filling bots that generate leads, and even attribution manipulation that makes ineffective channels look successful.

Most alarming for tech marketers is learning that performance-based campaigns aren't immune. "The bots will do exactly what you pay for," explains Dr. Fou. If you're paying for leads, sophisticated bots will complete your forms and solve CAPTCHAs, leaving you with seemingly legitimate but worthless leads. Even worse, traditional metrics like viewability and attention are easily manipulated by fraudsters.

Dr. Fou introduces a powerful alternative metric: "attentiveness," which measures actual human interaction after someone clicks through to your landing page. Unlike easily faked metrics, attentiveness captures real engagement through mouse movements, scrolling, and clicking—behaviors that bots typically don't replicate convincingly.

The conversation offers practical advice for protecting your budget: watch for suspiciously high click-through rates, monitor for leads completed in humanly impossible timeframes, and add invisible form fields that only bots will complete. The potential upside is enormous—companies could save up to 90% of their digital ad budgets by eliminating fraudulent spend.

Ready to stop throwing money at bots? Follow Dr. Augustine Fou on LinkedIn where he's published over 800 articles on digital ad fraud or at his company, Fou Analytics.

🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.

New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.

Catch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel.

👉 Subscribe, share, and connect with us at www.mightyandtrue.com

📩 Got a guest idea or question? Email us at kevin@mightyandtrue.com

🔗 Follow Kevin on LinkedIn for more insights and behind-the-scenes takes.

📰 Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: https://kevinkerner.substack.com/

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I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin

Ever wonder why some fast-growing companies hit a ceiling? The answer often lies in the transition from founder-led storytelling to scalable marketing systems. In this illuminating conversation with Kristen Brooks, Senior Director of Product Marketing at Octane, we unpack the critical challenges companies face when trying to scale beyond their founder's personal network and narrative.

Kristen reveals the painful truth many founders face: "The founder story is not one that everyone has the right to tell." This creates a fundamental obstacle when scaling sales teams who simply cannot authentically deliver the founder's personal journey. Drawing from her extensive experience at companies like Cisco, BrightSpot, and Bazaarvoice, Kristen shares practical frameworks for translating founder vision into repeatable go-to-market strategies.

We explore the stark differences between product-led growth and enterprise sales approaches, with fascinating insights into how messaging, channels, and customer interactions fundamentally change between these models. For PLG companies, the website becomes the primary sales channel, requiring different optimization strategies than enterprise selling with its complex buying committees.

The conversation turns to perhaps the most pressing marketing challenge today: how to effectively message AI features without sounding like everyone else. Kristen offers a refreshing perspective that cuts through the noise: "It can't be AI for AI's sake." She advocates for focusing on concrete benefits while simultaneously addressing privacy concerns that keep potential customers awake at night.

Whether you're a founder working to scale your company story, a marketer trying to implement effective systems, or a business leader navigating the PLG-to-enterprise spectrum, this episode delivers actionable frameworks you can implement immediately. Subscribe now to catch more conversations with the marketing leaders who are redefining how technology companies articulate their value in an increasingly crowded marketplace.

🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.

New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.

Catch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel.

👉 Subscribe, share, and connect with us at www.mightyandtrue.com

📩 Got a guest idea or question? Email us at kevin@mightyandtrue.com

🔗 Follow Kevin on LinkedIn for more insights and behind-the-scenes takes.

📰 Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: https://kevinkerner.substack.com/

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I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin

Marketing is undergoing a revolutionary transformation, and Qualified's CMO Maura Rivera is leading the charge with their groundbreaking AI SDR agent named Piper. This fascinating conversation reveals how Qualified has completely reimagined the traditional marketing funnel, replacing the conventional lead generation approach with autonomous pipeline generation at scale.

What makes Qualified's story particularly compelling is their methodical implementation of this technology within their own organization. They've fully redeployed their human inbound SDRs to higher-value outbound roles while Piper handles all inbound inquiries—a transition Maura admits initially made her nervous. "I was accountable for the pipeline number to our company, to the board," she shares. Yet the results have been undeniable, with over 500 companies now "hiring" Piper and seeing significant pipeline increases.

The conversation dives deep into the practical application of AI agents, introducing the "crawl, walk, run" approach that companies follow when deploying this technology. Starting with handling after-hours inquiries, progressing to working alongside humans, and ultimately managing the entire inbound function, this gradual implementation builds confidence and delivers measurable results. As Maura explains, "Piper can run circles around human SDRs, not because humans aren't great, but they can't work 24/7."

Beyond the operational aspects, Maura shares fascinating insights about their approach to anthropomorphizing AI, their content production strategies, and her vision for how websites will evolve into conversational interfaces that mirror the ChatGPT experience. She also addresses the future of marketing teams, emphasizing that while AI will transform roles, subject matter experts will remain essential—they'll just need to become adept at leveraging AI tools.

Whether you're a marketing leader curious about implementing AI agents, a technology professional interested in the evolution of customer experiences, or simply fascinated by how AI is reshaping business operations, this conversation offers invaluable perspectives on navigating the agentic revolution that's just beginning to unfold.

🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.

New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.

Catch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel.

👉 Subscribe, share, and connect with us at www.mightyandtrue.com

📩 Got a guest idea or question? Email us at kevin@mightyandtrue.com

🔗 Follow Kevin on LinkedIn for more insights and behind-the-scenes takes.

📰 Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: https://kevinkerner.substack.com/

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I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin

Chris O'Neill, CEO of GrowthLoop and former leader at Google and Evernote, reveals how AI is creating an entirely new marketing paradigm through what he calls "compound marketing."

This fascinating conversation explores how marketing is shifting from slow, manual processes to a world where AI agents function as team members, handling the routine while humans focus on creativity. O'Neill explains the concept of compounding in marketing – where small, consistent improvements create exponential growth. Just as compound interest generates wealth through small percentages over time, compound marketing leverages AI to increase the velocity of marketing experiments and improvements.

The most revolutionary aspect of this approach is how it removes the pain points of cross-channel marketing. GrowthLoop's technology abstracts away the tedious work of activating campaigns across multiple platforms and analyzing siloed data. The result? Marketers can move from idea to impact dramatically faster, with AI agents working as "glue" teammates that stitch everything together behind the scenes.

O'Neill offers a compelling vision for how marketing roles will evolve – not by being replaced, but by being elevated. He suggests individual contributors will need managerial skills to effectively guide these AI teammates: setting clear goals, providing feedback, and knowing when to delegate versus remain involved. The transformation extends to business models as well, with O'Neill predicting a shift from software-as-a-service to results-as-a-service, where companies pay for outcomes rather than seats.

Interested in learning how AI agents could transform your marketing team's capabilities and results?

Listen now to understand the fundamental shift happening in marketing operations and how to position yourself at the forefront of this revolution.

🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.

New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.

Catch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel.

👉 Subscribe, share, and connect with us at www.mightyandtrue.com

📩 Got a guest idea or question? Email us at kevin@mightyandtrue.com

🔗 Follow Kevin on LinkedIn for more insights and behind-the-scenes takes.

📰 Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: https://kevinkerner.substack.com/

📰 Want more tech marketing insights? Subscribe to the Drag & Drop newsletter for fresh thinking, real talk, and tools that make your job easier.

www.mightyandtrue.com

I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin

Ever find yourself staring at a mountain of marketing data and still wondering, "Where did this deal actually come from?" You're not alone. Dennis Bierman, CMO at Agility Recovery, brings a refreshingly honest perspective to one of marketing's biggest headaches: attribution.

Dennis pulls back the curtain on what many CMOs think but few admit – that despite our sophisticated tools and tracking systems, figuring out which marketing efforts truly drive results often feels more like educated guesswork than precise science. "We have all this data, tons of records and events, and yet we still had to have a discussion about where we thought this deal came from," he shares, capturing the frustration many marketers experience.

What makes this conversation particularly valuable is Dennis's contrarian approach to solving the problem. Rather than getting lost in the complexity of multi-touch attribution models, he advocates for simplicity, suggesting that the last activity before conversion often tells you what actually worked. "It's really that simple," he explains. This perspective challenges the industry's obsession with tracking every touchpoint throughout lengthy B2B buyer journeys, much of which Dennis suspects might be noise rather than signal.

Beyond attribution, we explore Dennis's innovative approach to AI in marketing. Instead of just using AI for content creation, his team at Agility Recovery is building interconnected GPT agents that identify potential leads based on real-world disasters and outages. One agent tracks weather events, another matches these events with businesses in affected areas, while a third crafts personalized outreach. It's a fascinating glimpse into how AI can transform lead generation by connecting real-time data with targeted marketing.

Ready to rethink your attribution strategy and explore AI beyond content creation? Listen now and discover why sometimes the simplest approach to measurement might be the most effective.

🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.

New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.

Catch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel.

👉 Subscribe, share, and connect with us at www.mightyandtrue.com

📩 Got a guest idea or question? Email us at kevin@mightyandtrue.com

🔗 Follow Kevin on LinkedIn for more insights and behind-the-scenes takes.

📰 Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: https://kevinkerner.substack.com/

📰 Want more tech marketing insights? Subscribe to the Drag & Drop newsletter for fresh thinking, real talk, and tools that make your job easier.

www.mightyandtrue.com

I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin

Want to know the real secret behind high-growth SaaS companies? It's not what most marketers think.

When Omar Akhtar, founder of Benchmarker, surveyed 250+ B2B SaaS companies about their marketing spending patterns, he discovered something counterintuitive: the highest-performing companies split their marketing budgets almost equally between brand and demand generation activities (48% brand, 52% demand). Meanwhile, underperforming organizations were dramatically overinvesting in demand gen (65-70%) while neglecting brand (30-35%).

This revelation challenges the prevailing wisdom in tech marketing, where demand generation frequently dominates budget conversations and brand activities are often seen as "nice to have" luxuries. As Omar explains in our conversation, "Brand is the foundation upon which demand generation succeeds... it might be difficult to measure what it's doing when it's there, but look at what happens when it's not there."

Our discussion dives deep into how company size, funding structure (VC vs PE), and target market (enterprise vs SMB) affect marketing budget allocation. We explore why private-equity-backed companies tend to slash brand spending first, how enterprise-selling organizations allocate resources differently, and the surprising volatility of product-led growth models compared to sales-led approaches.

Perhaps most provocatively, Omar suggests that marketing attribution systems—the dashboards and software many CMOs rely on to justify their existence—might be among the least valuable tools in the marketing arsenal. Instead, focusing on straightforward activity metrics and competitive benchmarks could provide more actionable intelligence with less overhead.

Whether you're a tech CMO trying to justify brand investments to your CFO, a startup founder balancing growth priorities, or a marketer wondering if your budget allocations are aligned with market leaders, this conversation will fundamentally change how you think about marketing investment strategies.

Follow Omar on LinkedIn to contribute questions to his upcoming research on channel performance metrics, or visit benchmarkerdata.com to explore his latest research.

🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.

New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.

Catch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel.

👉 Subscribe, share, and connect with us at www.mightyandtrue.com

📩 Got a guest idea or question? Email us at kevin@mightyandtrue.com

🔗 Follow Kevin on LinkedIn for more insights and behind-the-scenes takes.

📰 Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: https://kevinkerner.substack.com/

📰 Want more tech marketing insights? Subscribe to the Drag & Drop newsletter for fresh thinking, real talk, and tools that make your job easier.

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I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin

Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube.

Katie Penner, Head of Sender Relations at Sendoso, takes us deep into how gifting is transforming B2B marketing by delivering remarkable results where digital channels fall short. With 64% of marketers struggling to hit revenue targets with current budgets, the renewed interest in thoughtful, human-first marketing approaches couldn't be more timely.

What makes modern gifting so powerful? Katie reveals how strategic gifting delivers a 4x return on investment and accelerates sales cycles by 29% when integrated properly. The key distinction she emphasizes is moving beyond transactional gifting to relationship-building approaches that connect with prospects as actual humans. Today's buyers crave this personalization—71% expect personalized interactions and 76% get frustrated without them.

Katie walks us through exactly how Sendoso integrates with marketing technology ecosystems including Salesforce, HubSpot, Clay, and Gong to create automated yet deeply personalized gifting moments throughout the buyer journey. From pre-demo coffee gift cards to help break through inbox clutter, to thoughtfully selected items based on a prospect's personal interests, these touchpoints create meaningful connections in an increasingly digital world.

Looking toward the future, Katie shares how AI is revolutionizing gifting by enabling true personalization at scale. Imagine AI agents that can identify when an account has gone cold, suggest the perfect gift based on a prospect's interests scraped from social media, and deliver it at exactly the right moment—all without adding to your team's workload. The possibilities for creating genuine human connections while maintaining efficiency are tremendously exciting.

Want to implement effective gifting strategies today? Visit sendoso.com/playbooks for free, ungated resources with proven playbooks you can adapt for your business.

Connect with Katie on LinkedIn or email her at katiepenner@sendoso.com to learn more about transforming your marketing approach with the power of human connection.

🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.

New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.

Catch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel.

👉 Subscribe, share, and connect with us at www.mightyandtrue.com

📩 Got a guest idea or question? Email us at kevin@mightyandtrue.com

🔗 Follow Kevin on LinkedIn for more insights and behind-the-scenes takes.

📰 Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: Subscribe to Kevin's Substack at: https://kevinkerner.substack.com/

📰 Want more tech marketing insights? Subscribe to the Drag & Drop newsletter for fresh thinking, real talk, and tools that make your job easier.

www.mightyandtrue.com