Chad Hughes invites James Thurston, a longtime friend and experienced land agent, to the show to discuss insights on their generation and its alignment with the industry. James Thurston reflects on his journey, emphasizing the importance of networking and building relationships during his time in the land agent program. He shares how chance and curiosity led him to the field, working on the Alliance pipeline and later in various locations across Western Canada.

James explores the unique characteristics of his and Chad’s generation, shaped by a lack of parental presence during childhood, fostering resilience, self-sufficiency, and a nomadic mindset. He highlights the generation's ability to adapt to industry changes, particularly during the boom in coal bed methane, and how they navigated through subsequent challenges like the 2008 financial crisis and the fracking revolution. Despite the positive traits, James acknowledges the downsides, such as reluctance to ask for help and potential loneliness.

Chad and James touch on the evolution of the land agent role, from individual well projects to centralized pad locations and a shift to Crown land. James emphasizes the importance of adaptability and problem-solving in the ever-changing industry. Their conversation reveals the unique characteristics of their generation and its impact on their successful navigation through the dynamic landscape of land agency.

“... if I didn't know the answer, I really made a conscious effort to seek it out. And it was a lot harder back then. As you remember, we didn't have the internet like we do now. We didn't have access to information, but I did have a large network of friends from Olds. And, you know, I leaned on that. … we had to all kind of learn from each other, you know, there was a lot of talk. There was a lot of consensus. There was a lot of sitting at a table and working things out and bouncing ideas off each other and really being open to that idea that not every problem has a simple solution.” - James Thurston

About James Thurston:

For nearly 23 years, James has journeyed through Western Canada acquiring land and overseeing large-scale acquisitions.

His path started in Camrose, Alberta, where he joined a small but busy land broker. Over the course of five years, he dedicated himself to acquiring hundreds of upstream projects. It was a time of growth and development, both personally and professionally. But when the call of opportunity beckoned, James found himself in Calgary. There, he took on the role of an in-house landman at Penn West overseeing large-scale drilling programs in West Central Alberta. As the company underwent transitions, James recognized the need for a new path and that journey brought him to Shell in 2014. He’s been able to leverage his skills and knowledge and enjoy a successful career at Shell during an ever-changing time.

James is also a proud husband and father of four young children who keep him on his feet and have helped him grow as a person and as a project manager and landman.

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Chad Hughes | CEO, Entrepreneurial Leader, Author: website |linkedin

James Thurston | Discipline Lead, Surface Land, Shell Canada: website | linkedin

Host Chad Hughes welcomes Blandon Granger, Supervisor of Real Estate Services for the Sacramento Municipal Utility District (SMUD), to the show. Blandon has been in the energy industry at SMUD for the past seventeen years and supervises asset management and complex acquisitions. He talks with Chad about the impacts of EV charging and urban development on his role. 

Blandon explains that SMUD has a “very aggressive” zero carbon plan and by 2030 wants all their energy to be from clean sources. He talks about how SMUD approaches that goal by developing themselves as well as partnering with developers with similar goals. Renewable energy and green initiative projects come with their own challenges that Blandon describes for Chad.

Chad and Blandon discuss how the real estate development deals are made, how SMUD is a public agency with an elected board of directors, how the green energy shift comes with decarbonization and the impacts of urban and residential growth on how his department operates. EV charging especially has come with its own challenges and Blandon addresses this and more with Chad in this eye-opening interview. 

“So, you know, a big concern, I think, anywhere is wiping out [agriculture] lands for these solar projects. Agriculture is a big customer for us. I mean, you know, we've got agricultural customers, it's a part of our heritage in the valley here. I don't think SMUD really wants to be going out there and just decimating significant farmlands and so forth. So the thought is you would bring in compatible type of AG uses. So what we've seen so far is mainly grazing. Sheep are great. They don't bother or destroy the facilities.” - Blandon Granger

About Blandon Granger:

At SMUD, Blandon Granger manages all real estate activities of the nation’s sixth-largest publicly owned electric utility. With an annual budget of $1.6 billion, SMUD is a leader in renewable technologies and developing energy projects. Blandon’s group provides services for acquisition, management and disposition of all land rights necessary to operate an electrical utility with generation, transmission, distribution, retail, and administrative facilities. Blandon has also served on the City of Roseville Public Utilities Commission since 2012 and is responsible to the city council for recommendations on policies concerning evaluation, operations, and compliance with state and federal rules and regulations relating to the city's utilities within the city limits. Blandon has achieved the International Right of Way Association's (IRWA) Senior Agent (SR/WA) designation and serves on IRWA's International Electric and Utilities Committee and is the past chair of the Asset Management Committee. 

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Chad Hughes | CEO, Entrepreneurial Leader, Author: website |linkedin

Blandon Granger | Supervisor of Real Estate Services at SMUD: website | linkedin

Host Chad Hughes welcomes Jennifer Tidmarsh, Vice President of Indigenous Relations & Partnerships with Ontario Power Generation, to the show. Jennifer talks about the development of small modular reactors in the nuclear space and the challenges surrounding presenting those solutions to the community.

Jennifer explains some of the public perceptions around nuclear power that have been shaped by events like Three Mile Island, Fukushima, and Chernobyl, and even pop culture references like the nuclear power plant in The Simpsons. Her work involves a lot of education around changing those perceptions and explaining the new initiatives in place for nuclear waste management. 

Chad and Jennifer discuss the Indigenous community's concerns about the storage and handling of nuclear waste, specific facts about nuclear waste, the complex regulatory process for it, and the value of nuclear energy for the future. Jennifer sheds light on the environmental assessments that go into nuclear power generation and how the OPG works to alleviate negative perceptions of nuclear overall and educate the public on safeties in place.

“But really the perception has been we want more information about nuclear as a whole, not just those little snippets of, okay, here's the permit we need for this, for the reactor. It's where does nuclear fit into the Ontario grid, and why are you doing this? So we've spent a lot of time really talking about, you know, pathways to decarbonization, which was a report that was put out by the IESO. And you know what, the fact that we need generation and why do we need generation and what's the plan going forward. And so that's been, you know, us doing a lot of that groundwork. And we have had pushback. You know, I can't sugarcoat it all, right?” - Jennifer Tidmarsh

About Jennifer Tidmarsh:

With a strong background in the energy sector, Jennifer has worked with various organizations, associations, regulated and unregulated businesses, Indigenous communities, governments, and ministerial departments. Prior to becoming the Vice President of Indigenous Relations and Partnerships at Ontario Power Generation, Jennifer was the President of Transmission in Canada for NextEra Energy, the largest renewables developer in North America. 

In addition to business development in Canada, Jennifer also led the development and construction of the East West Tie transmission project in Northwestern Ontario, which went into service in March 2022.  The East West Tie project is proud to have an equity partner in six First Nations communities, as well as training and employing a large Indigenous workforce in the region.

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Chad Hughes | CEO, Entrepreneurial Leader, Author: website |linkedin

Jennifer Tidmarsh | Vice President, Indigenous Relations & Partnerships: website | linkedin | opg instagram

Host Chad Hughes welcomes Pablo Gutiérrez, Managing Director of O’Gorman&Hagerman professional services firm, to the show to talk about what it’s like to acquire land access and engage with the public in Mexico. O’Gorman&Hagerman started in corporate law but moved to provide agrarian services which is where they now specialize. 

Pablo explains that Mexico has public and private property, just like the US and Canada, but they also have ejidos and communities which are social property mainly in rural areas which are under agrarian law. He explains how different states have different regulations for the various property types and what it’s like to navigate the complex system of authorities governing land rights.

Chad and Pablo discuss the complexities of the differing information systems mapping each property type, the process required to assess routes and gain access, and how he and his firm would go about appraising and negotiating compensation. Pablo shares a lot of information about the Mexican right of way system and describes the kind of development with the most activity there. This episode sheds a lot of light on the differences and also similarities between our system and that of Mexico.

“... safety is one of our main concerns as a company. It's a very tough one to solve because you don't actually know who to trust. And in each community, you don't know at the onset who's there. We have a team of social experts that through these interviews, try to understand what's happening on the field, who's there, who has interests, who are the leaders, what are they doing if there is organized crime there, and at what level? What do they control if they have contact with the lands or not? So we try to know where we're going. But there are many things that are not apparent, that you cannot see. And that's one, I would say, main risk. And the other is we just have many roads and many areas in Mexico that that are just dangerous at some hours or times or, you know, that you don't want to be on the wrong moment at the wrong time” - Pablo Gutiérrez

About Pablo Gutiérrez:

Pablo Gutiérrez de la Peza. Lawyer, MBA and Managing Partner of O’Gorman&Hagerman, a medium-sized law and professional services firm specializing in Lands, Permits and Social Licenses for infrastructure projects in Mexico. Pablo leads a team of high-performance multidisciplinary teams that have successfully acquired the Right of Way for some of the most complex and challenging projects in Mexico. He is a member of the IRWA International Committee.

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Chad Hughes | CEO, Entrepreneurial Leader, Author: website |linkedin

Pablo Gutiérrez | Managing Director at O’Gorman&Hagerman: website | linkedin | email

Host Chad Hughes welcomes Robert McCallum, President of McCallum Environmental, to the show. Robert has been working in the environmental consulting industry for over 25 years and he specifically brings his experience in working across varied Canadian provincial jurisdictions to the conversation.

Robert is a professional biologist registered in Alberta and though he started his career in oil and gas, in 2003 he was pulled into a renewable energy project and has been working in the renewable space since. His company is called into projects to do environmental assessment work; looking at birds, wetlands, watercourses, and land use habitat. 

Chad and Robert discuss how Robert’s experience in the practical side of the industry helps him communicate the regulatory processes to clients, how the regulatory boards differ from province to province, the lengthy time frames involved in obtaining permitting approvals, and how to balance project and client needs against environmental requirements. Robert’s insight sheds light on how provincial regulations are the same in spirit but very different in process and execution, something to always consider when working across jurisdictions. 

“And you can't really take the approach that one thing is more important than the other or one thing is just going to be a token effort at the end of this and we can just move forward with it. So you really need to have it all lined up in the beginning and then you can check them off. Oh yeah, that's not going to be applicable. We don't need to worry about it. We've had the Department of National Defense come back and say that's going to interfere with our radars and no, you can't have turbines there. Now, the Department of National Defense doesn't have the authority to say you can't have radars there. But when the regulatory agency hears the Department of National Defense doesn't want turbines, that holds a lot of weight” - Robert McCallum

About Robert McCallum:

Robert has been working in the regulatory consulting industry and has worked throughout Canada with a variety of industries and people for over 25 years. He has learned that no matter the industry or location, Project Management is about people. Working as a team, having fun, and enjoying the accomplishment of a successful project.

He has extensive project management experience in an owner and consulting environment and he understands and can articulate technical, business and project management functions associated with project development and execution. Robert understands typical owner-company project sanctioning / funding cycles and business drivers. He has a demonstrated ability to adjust Project Management approaches to meet the requirements of projects with varying scopes, complexity, risk, constraints, etc. while understanding the implications of process variance. He also has extensive planning, regulatory, construction and commissioning planning and execution experience.

What sets Robert apart is both his responsiveness and ability to bring a big-picture approach to all the assessments he is part of. This comes from working on projects through assessment, permitting, construction monitoring, operations monitoring, and reclamation. 

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Chad Hughes | CEO, Entrepreneurial Leader, Author: website |linkedin

Robert McCallum | Project Management, Environmental Consulting and Assessment, President at McCallum Environmental Ltd: website | linkedin | email

In the inaugural episode of Elevated Access’ third season, Chad Hughes is joined by Senior Real Estate Infrastructure Advisor Gordon MacNair. Gordon has spent time with the RWA and worked across more than six countries. He shares advice along with the similarities and differences between the jurisdictions.

Gordon worked in the BC Ministry of Highways and later for Ontario Hydro, among other companies in his career, which has given him great experience in acquiring land for major land assemblies. It was when he was working for the City of Ottawa that he became heavily involved with the International Railway Association as a volunteer before moving up to become the international president. In his presidential capacity, he has worked alongside people from the UK, Australia, South Africa, Nigeria, Mexico, the US, and Canada.

Chad and Gordon discuss the similarities in the industry that exist across different countries and how the work is handled. Gordon also explains the significant differences between the varied jurisdictions, with a not insignificant difference being in terminology. Gordon shares which differences he sees as positives that he’d like to see adopted elsewhere, differing safety and risk situations, and some key lessons he has learned that he imparts as solid advice to those looking to similarly work internationally.

“In the past, whenever I think about land assembly, I think you're putting together land for subdivisions or it's for commercial development, industrial development, residential development or whatever. But a lot of countries, especially the UK as well as Australia, they refer to land assembly in terms of you're putting projects together for your infrastructure real estate, whether it's the highways or whether it's the hydro lines or transmission lines, whatever the case may be. So again, a little nuance there with regards to the difference when you're talking about terminology.” - Gordon MacNair

About Gordon MacNair:

Gordon E. MacNair is a Senior Real Estate Infrastructure Advisor employed with MacNair Consulting Inc. His former position was with the City of Ottawa as the Director of the Corporate Real Estate Office where his team oversaw all real estate matters for the City of Ottawa. He is also a certified lecturer for the IRWA and the AIC and has published numerous articles on infrastructure real estate matters. Gord served as the International President of the IRWA and is currently serving as the Chair of the International Relations Committee. Mr. MacNair has taught courses and seminars on infrastructure real estate issues throughout Canada and the United States as well as Australia, South Africa, and the UK.

Episode Clarification Notes:

1. Title clarification: Gordon was the Real Estate Manager, not Property Manager as stated. He started off as a Property Agent, then was promoted to Real Estate Manager.
2. Job clarification: Gordon served as the COO (Chief Operating Officer) of Ottawa Community Lands Development Corporation, not with the COO as stated.
3. Andrea Carolan clarification: Gordon worked with Andrea, not for her as stated.
4. Book clarification: A book was mentioned as being by Dr. James McKellar but James is not a Dr (PhD), he is a Professor. The book is by Professor James McKellar. Gordon served as the COO (Chief Operating Officer) of Ottawa Community Lands Development Corporation, not with the COO as stated.

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Chad Hughes | CEO, Entrepreneurial Leader, Author: website |linkedin

Gordon MacNair | Senior Real Estate Infrastructure Advisor at MacNair Consulting Inc: linkedin

Chad Hughes is joined by Tim Robillard, Vice-Presisdent of Engagement & Operations for Communica Public Affairs, to discuss the energy transition. Tim draws from his background and experience to talk about how the energy transition may create new interests or concerns for stakeholders in the future.

Tim has been in the energy industry in various roles for over 25 years. He got his start in peer mediation programs in high school which taught him the value of people talking things through. Mediation and dispute resolution is in his nature, his calling. He believes there is a regulatory backdrop to all healthy dialogue between stakeholders, communities, and industry players.

Chad and Tim Robillard talk about the one time he was arrested at an open house for a coal mine project, the different skill sets he draws on in his current work, the human component of the energy industry, how regulatory bodies tie back to the people, and his forecast for the future of the industry. Tim has a keen way of connecting the dots between ideals and issues, and he understands the need for an empathetic human connection in the work that he does, as well as a recognition of regulatory changes. 

“There are human needs that need to be met, and there are ways in which energy companies try and meet those needs. Getting there is the tricky part, and that's where folks like us can come in.” - Tim Robillard

About Tim Robillard:

Tim brings over 20 years of Energy Industry public affairs and engagement experience in both Canada and the US to his role as Senior Manager, Engagement at Communica.   Known for his diverse leadership and conflict management skills, Tim has led hundreds of teams in a wide variety of energy sector projects in different regulatory jurisdictions through the lifecycle of an asset.

Tim has been an active member on the CER Land Matters Group and was a designer & implementer of Alternative Dispute Resolution Programs for the CER, AER and BC OGC.  Tim is Chartered Mediator with the ADR Institute of Canada and has mediated hundreds of energy industry and public disputes, enabling him and Communica to support their clients to better navigate through complex work and enable better Indigenous and stakeholder relationships with companies.

Tim has a Master of Laws degree from Osgoode Hall Law School and ensures that our clients work always has the best chance of permitting success with a balance of meaningful stakeholder involvement that enhances understanding, trust and a company’s reputation in the community.

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Chad Hughes | CEO, Entrepreneurial Leader, Author: website |linkedin

Tim Robillard | Vice-President, Engagement & Operations - Communica : website | linkedin

Chad Hughes welcomes Jeff Burke - Environment, Land and Emissions Governance for TC Energy - to the show to talk about non-technical risk across jurisdictions. Jeff addresses common challenges that can be expected whether you’re in Canada, the US, or Mexico, and shares great advice for land access professionals.

Jeff started out in construction and maintenance projects for a Canadian national railway company. Through that he gained an understanding of the ways in which industry impacts land owners, which ultimately led him into his land career. With his current company, TC Energy, whom he’s been with for over ten years, he has worked in and around land, and in Indigenous relations and environmental regulatory roles.

Chad and Jeff Burke talk about how the pandemic changed communication, the relational skill set required to work in the land industry, evaluating risks in terms of land rights, and the commonalities in the disciplines that apply regardless of jurisdiction. Jeff’s advice on managing non-technical risk and how to get a project out of the gate is born from vast experience. His insight will prove valuable to anyone working in land access or project development careers.

“And, you know, the relationship management and the ability to form relationships, specifically with landowners, is a critical piece. I look for this in all of the people that do our work. It is absolutely necessary that you have the ability to build those relationships, be relatable, show empathy, communicate effectively, etcetera.” - Jeff Burke

About Jeff Burke:

Jeff Burke has been with TC Energy since 2013 and has held various management positions, including in Land, Indigenous Relations, Environment and Regulatory affairs. He is currently the Director of Environment and Land Governance, overseeing enterprise level requirements, risk management and strategy for the Environment and Land functions. Over his career, he has been deeply involved in leading the acquisition and management of land rights, and landowner engagement across North America.

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Chad Hughes | CEO, Entrepreneurial Leader, Author: website |linkedin

Jeff Burke | Director - Environment, Land and Emissions Governance for TC Energy: website | linkedin