In this episode we look at a relatively old industrial fix: the use of nitrite—a toxic chemical—for curing processed meat on a large scale. It’s a compelling case study to explore how regulatory policies are shaped and the complex role science plays in that process.

Our guest, Dr. Jérôme Santolini, a biochemist and research director at the Institute for Integrative Biology of the Cell at the University of Paris-Saclay, heads the Oxidative Stress and Detoxification Laboratory. He tells us about the biotoxicological mechanisms behind using nitrite to preserve meat and uncovers the historical origins of why a known poison became a key tool in food preservation.

Jérôme sheds light on the intricate roles nitrites (and other nitric oxides) play in the human body, their effects, and their potential carcinogenic risks. He also offers his perspective on how we can approach meat curing—and eating—more thoughtfully. Drawing on the lessons of the failed nitrite regulation in France, he advocates for a more reflective approach to knowledge production: one that prioritises deep understanding over the relentless pursuit of data – a proposition that is relevant far beyond the example of meat curing.

For additional resources and a deeper exploration of Jérôme’s work and views, please visit:

https://www.i2bc.paris-saclay.fr/equipe-oxidative-stress-and-detoxication/

https://theconversation.com/profiles/jerome-santolini-513994/articles

Further reading:

Coudray, G. (2023). Nitrites dans la charcuterie: Le scandale. New York: HarperCollins.

Coudray, G. (2021). Who Poisoned Your Bacon? The Dangerous History of Meat Additives. London: Icon Books .

Santolini, Jérôme. (2023). Additifs nitrés dans les charcuteries : quelle information scientifique pour quelle politique publique ?

Santolini, Jérôme; Steinberger, Julia. (2022). La désobéissance civile des scientifiques est justifiée sur les plans éthique et pragmatique. Le Monde.

Scientifiques en rébellion. (2024). Sortir des labos pour défendre le vivant. Paris: SeuilLibelle.

Stengers, I. (2015). In catastrophic times: Resisting the coming barbarism. London: Open Humanities Press.

Beyond the Fix is brought to you by Critical Scientists Switzerland, an independent network of scientists. It is made possible by the Stiftung Mercator Schweiz and produced by Podcastschmiede. Host: Thomas Kobel. Music: Mich Gerber.

If you enjoy the podcast and would like to hear more episodes, please consider supporting our work.

In this episode we look at ‘green growth’, the idea that the problems of our current economy can be solved with green technologies while continuing to grow the economy. Our guest, Prof. Dr. Julia Steinberger, Professor of Ecological Economics at the University of Lausanne, talks about the differences between ecological and environmental economics, and more generally about the problems with dominant economics. We explore the problems with the idea that growth can be sustained if only technologies change, discuss issues of decoupling or the rebound effect, and ultimately the need to address the neoliberal strategies behind many current policies. Julia explains alternative economic perspectives such as degrowth and postgrowth, which are based on actual human needs and planetary boundaries. She talks about one of her key research projects, 'Living Well Within Limits', which demonstrates the viability of such a needs-based and well-being-centred perspective, and the implications for transformative pathways beyond green growth

For additional resources and a deeper exploration of Julia’s work and views, please visit:

https://www.unil.ch/gse/fr/home/menuinst/vie-facultaire/promotions--nominations/steinberger-julia.html

https://jksteinberger.medium.com/

Further reading:

• Steinberger, J., Guerin, G., Hofferberth, E., & Pirgmaier, E. (2024). Democratizing provisioning systems: A prerequisite for living well within limits. Sustainability: Science, Practice and Policy, 20(1), 2401186.
• Keen, S. (2011). Debunking Economics - The Naked Emperor Dethroned?
• Ayres, R. U., van den Bergh, J. C. J. M., Lindenberger, D., & Warr, B. (2013). The underestimated contribution of energy to economic growth. Structural Change and Economic Dynamics, 27, 79–88.

Beyond the Fix is brought to you by Critical Scientists Switzerland, an independent network of scientists. It is made possible by the Stiftung Mercator Schweiz and produced by Podcastschmiede. Host: Thomas Kobel. Music: Mich Gerber.

If you enjoy the podcast and would like to hear more episodes, please consider supporting our work.