In a very special episode, Philippine Secretary of National Defense Gilbert "Gibo" Teodoro sat down with co-host Ray Powell for an exclusive in-person interview at his Manila office, delivering insights into the Philippines' defense strategy to counter China's aggression in the West Philippine Sea.

Secretary Teodoro emphasized that defending the Philippines matters globally because maritime violations anywhere threaten the international order. "If we are to preserve an international order, imperfect as it is, then we should care if anyone's country, no matter how small, is violated," Teodoro stated. He noted that China's approach appears focused on weakening alliances between the United States and its partners.

The defense chief highlighted that multiple nations support the Philippines’ stand, including Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and European G7 countries, all facing similar challenges from Chinese gray zone aggression.

Secretary Teodoro outlined the Philippines' shift from its traditional post-invasion land defense to a proactive deterrent strategy called the Comprehensive Archipelagic Defense Concept. This multi-domain approach recognizes that modern conflicts begin with information warfare, cyber attacks, and hybrid operations before physical invasion.

The strategy aims to secure the Philippines' 80% water, 20% land territory under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, protecting fishing grounds from Chinese coast guard, maritime militia and fishing vessels that have violated Philippine maritime rights and severely degraded its traditional fishing areas.

The defense secretary discussed modernization efforts under the Re-Horizon 3 program, moving beyond the country’s outdated 15-year planning cycles. Key investments he is pursuing include:

- Strategic infrastructure and bases to fortify outer territorial boundaries

- Secure connectivity and domain awareness across 2 million square kilometers of maritime area

- Medium-range missile capabilities and multi-role fighters

- Hybrid warfare tools, including drones and unmanned systems

- Cognitive warfare capabilities to combat PRC disinformation

- Force structure expansion beyond the current 162,000 personnel for a country of over 120 million.

Teodoro addressed China's information warfare efforts, including attempts to censor “Food Delivery”, a West Philippine Sea documentary that recently won awards in New Zealand. He also discussed confrontational tabloid tactics by China Daily reporters at Singapore's Shangri-La Dialogue.

The interview revealed the significant evolution of Philippine-Japan defense cooperation, with both nations facing similar Chinese territorial challenges. Japan's proposed "one-theater concept" creates an operational convergence between the US Indo-Pacific Command, Japan, the Philippines, and Australia, as does the country’s recently approved Reciprocal Access Agreement with Japan.

Teodoro addressed the impact on Filipino fishermen excluded from traditional fishing grounds at Scarborough Shoal. China has no right to exclude anyone from these waters, the secretary emphasized, according to international law and the landmark 2016 Arbitral Tribunal ruling.

The defense chief noted how China's West Philippine Sea actions have become the primary catalyst for international convergence in opposition to Beijing, with countries recognizing that "if China can do it here, then other countries can do it in their own areas".

Teodoro observed that 90% of Filipinos distrust China due to current leadership's actions, suggesting Chinese leadership will face accountability for damaging its international standing and uniting its adversaries in opposition.

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In Ep. 87, hosts Ray Powell and Jim Carouso speak with Ambassador Pou Sothirak, a former Cambodian diplomat and current distinguished advisor to the Cambodian Center for Regional Studies, to unpack the complex issues facing Cambodia today. The discussion centers on the renewed border conflict with Thailand, the controversy surrounding the Ream Naval Base, and Cambodia's strategic navigation of its relationships with the United States and China.

Ambassador Sothirak provides historical context for the century-old border dispute, which has its origins in French colonial-era maps from 1907. He recounts the history of the conflict, including the International Court of Justice (ICJ) rulings in 1962 and 2013 that affirmed Cambodia's sovereignty over the Preah Vihear temple and its surrounding territory. The most recent clashes, which began in late May, are described as a "misunderstanding" at face value but are deeply entangled with issues of nationalism and domestic politics in both nations. The situation has been exacerbated by a political crisis in Thailand following a leaked phone call between the leaders of the two nations, which has brought bilateral relations to a low point. The Ambassador suggests a path forward involving third-party mediation to facilitate a truce and demilitarization of the border, followed by high-level diplomatic talks.

The conversation addresses widespread speculation that China's extensive support in upgrading the Ream Naval Base amounts to establishing a Chinese military outpost. Ambassador Sothirak dismisses this as a "myth," stating that Cambodia's constitution prohibits foreign military bases on its soil. He explains that Cambodia's collaboration with China is aimed at modernizing its own navy to safeguard its maritime security. However, he acknowledges the semi-permanent, rotating presence of Chinese ships and personnel at the base. He views the recent visit by the U.S. Secretary of Defense as a critical opportunity to dispel misconceptions and improve transparency, emphasizing that Cambodia must balance its ties between the two superpowers.

The episode explores Cambodia's foreign policy and its efforts to manage its relationships with both the U.S. and China. China is Cambodia's largest donor and source of foreign direct investment, with its Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) funding essential infrastructure like power plants and highways. At the same time, the United States is Cambodia's biggest export market. Ambassador Sothirak expresses concern that potential U.S. tariffs, intended to pressure China, could inadvertently harm Cambodia's economy and push it further into China's orbit. He argues that for a small country like Cambodia, maintaining engagement with both the U.S. and China is essential for its development and sovereignty.

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Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Ian Urbina returns to “Why Should We Care About the Indo-Pacific” to preview Season 2 of his acclaimed Outlaw Ocean podcast, exposing the hidden world of human rights and environmental abuses on the high seas—from brutal labor conditions on distant-water fishing vessels to coercive processing centers in China, India, and beyond.

Urbina, founder and director of the Outlaw Ocean Project, dives into the maritime underworld and examines what’s changed—and what remains unchanged—since his first appearance on the pod. The conversation unfolds in two parts:

1. China’s Distant-Water Fleet & At-Sea Abuses

- Fleet scale and state ties: China’s distant-water fleet dwarfs all others, with estimates ranging from 2,700 to 17,000 vessels; Urbina’s team calculated about 6,500 ships, one-third of which have direct state involvement.

- Illegal fishing and geopolitical power: Chinese longliners and squid jiggers routinely engage in illegal, unreported, and unregulated (IUU) fishing—invading marine protected areas, overfishing, and crossing exclusive economic zones—thereby gaining economic advantage and shaping “facts on the water” to support territorial claims.

- Life on board squid jiggers: These industrial vessels use hundreds of bright lights and metal arms to jig for squid. Crews of 30–50 often endure two- to three-year contracts at sea with no shore leave, cramped and unsanitary conditions, malnutrition, and no Wi-Fi. Laborers—initially foreign but increasingly rural Chinese—face debt bondage, violence, passport confiscation, and forced labor.

2. On-Land Processing & Global Supply Chains

- Scope expansion: Season 2 follows seafood from ship to shore, uncovering forced labor in processing plants across China, India, and along the North Korean border.

- Chinese processing centers: Utilizing open-source intelligence and encrypted Chinese platforms, Urbina’s team documented state-orchestrated labor transfers of Uyghurs from Xinjiang to coastal seafood factories—facilities that supply major global buyers, including U.S. government cafeterias. Workers face locked compounds, surveillance, and coercion akin to modern slavery.

- North Korean laborers: Thousands of North Korean women are trafficked into Chinese factories under government vetting. Held in locked dorms and subjected to widespread sexual abuse and forced overtime, these women are trapped by debts owed to smugglers and extortion from border officials.

- Indian shrimp processing: A whistleblower’s 50,000-page dossier exposed debt bondage, physical confinement, and antibiotic-tainted shrimp at processing plants in India. As Western buyers migrated from Thailand to India, the same labor abuses reemerged, threatening food safety and ethical sourcing.

By weaving narrative storytelling with hard data and firsthand testimony, this episode underscores the urgent need for transparent supply chains and international enforcement to protect vulnerable workers and marine ecosystems. Visit TheOutlawOcean.com for updates, subscribe to the newsletter, and tune into Season 2 for deep-dive investigations that track seafood—and human exploitation—from ocean depths to dinner tables.