Meaningful interactions don't have to be complex. Travis simply shares his experiences in nature in childhood and finds ways to recreate the emotional experience today. To me the most meaningful part is the result: he expects to spend more time with his children (and dog) doing something he's meant to do a long time. It doesn't cost money. It sounds like it will give him more time. The cleaning part, we'll see how it goes, though I predict the activation that comes from that part of it will affect him.

He works in policy so he describes how he sees personal change leading to systemic change more than trying to start with something top-down alone, like working from government or coercion. As I understand, he sees more than most that starting from intrinsic motivation, as the Spodek Method does, can lead to exponential growth in cultural change.

Time will tell, but I see it happening.

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If you haven't listened to my conversation with Lorna before taking the sustainability leadership workshop, I recommend listening to it first: 794: Lorna Davis, part 3: Before taking the sustainability leadership workshop.

In this episode, Lorna shares her experiences, reactions, and thoughts from taking the workshop. They're all multifaceted. They come from her classmates, leading them in the exercises, being led by them in the exercises, curiosity, and more. She shares vulnerabilities as openly as her discoveries and new commitments.

I predict you'll find her engaging and captivating. Longtime listeners have heard me talk about the workshop, maybe Evelyn, but you might think consider me biased as the person who developed it and Evelyn as someone else leading it. Check out Lorna's experiences.

If interested in learning more about the workshop or taking it, contact me.

• Lorna's home page
• Her TED talk

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Josh and I talked about a few aspects of his acting on his commitment from the Spodek Method. For one thing, since he and I both study, practice, and teach leadership, we talked about the technique, how it works, how it impacted him. Since leadership involves emotion, empathy, and related social and emotional skills, we talked about the emotional journey.

If you ever want to infuriate me, maybe the most effective way is to get me talking about environmentalists who talk only science and policy, just what they consider the facts that make them right. They try to browbeat people into doing what they don't do themselves, as if integrity, credibility, and personal, hands-on, practical experience didn't matter for leading others. They're essential. Oops, I could feel the fury rising.

Josh and I talk about what works in leading and influencing others. Listening works more than lecturing. Empathy more than instruction. Intrinsic motivation over extrinsic.

Also we talked about finding and experiencing the beauty of nature, including something of his Kauai experience in Chicago, not despite but in part because he picked up litter too. As always, once people start picking it up, they find more than they thought, including in places they pass daily.

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