What’s the real difference between a consultant, an agency, and a fractional CMO and how do you know which one your business actually needs?

This week, Joe Grover joins me on the show for a deep dive into the evolving landscape of marketing leadership and the dynamics behind each of these roles.

In this episode, Joe breaks down why so many companies hire a CMO too early and how to assess the real gaps in your growth strategy. We also discuss what founders should consider before bringing in external support, explore the emotional side of leadership, and unpack the pros and pitfalls of fractional roles plus the critical importance of execution when strategy alone isn’t enough.

If you’re a founder, executive, or marketer thinking about building a team, this conversation will challenge your assumptions and offer a grounded framework for what effective marketing leadership really looks like.

About Joe

Joe Grover is a Managing Partner and the CMO for Amplēo. Joe has a unique blend of marketing and finance experience that gives him a unique perspective and skillset in the c-suite. He is a fractional CMO and marketing advisor to several consumer, services, and software companies.

Before joining Amplēo in 2023, Joe was the CMO at Homie, a venture-backed real estate technology company. He led local and corporate marketing teams across five states. Under his leadership, the company was included on the Deloitte Fast 500, Inc500, Utah Business Fast 50, MWCN 100, and won a Gold Addy for the best guerilla marketing campaign of the year in Phoenix, Arizona, and was honored as CXO of the year by Utah Business Magazine in 2021.

He was the president and CMO of Genesis Media, a New York City-based digital advertising software company. Before Genesis, Joe was the CMO and CEO of Altitude Digital, an ad tech startup in Denver, Colorado. Genesis Media and Altitude Digital merged in 2017.

Joe spent seven years at Mercato Partners, a top-performing venture capital firm in Salt Lake City, UT, where he supported investments in several fast-growing software and branded consumer companies including Skullcandy, Stance, Fusion-io, and Goal Zero.

Before Mercato Partners, Joe was the founder and CEO of a creative ad agency, where he led advertising and communication campaigns for Fortune 1,000 companies nationwide including consumer brands Comcast, T-Mobile, Zions Bank, and Sportsman’s Warehouse. Joe was involved in Junto Partners, an entrepreneurship incubator, and launched several startups over 24 months. He became the director of the program where he recruited, trained, and mentored hundreds of entrepreneurs.

Connect with Joe

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelgrover/

Connect with Veronica

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vromney/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vromney/

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What if you could hand off your repeatable tasks to an AI team that sounds just like you?

This week, I'm joined by Gemma Bonham-Carter, strategist for entrepreneurs who want to build a profitable online course business. She shares how she’s radically transformed her business using custom GPTs and why AI is no longer optional for modern entrepreneurs.

In this episode, Gemma takes us behind-the-scenes of her “bot squad,” a team of over 20 custom GPTs designed to run everything from podcast production to social content to internal operations. We talk about what it means to build for freedom, how AI can amplify your team’s strengths instead of replacing them, and the mindset shifts required to fully embrace this new era of work.

Whether you’re just starting to experiment with AI or ready to systemize your entire business around it, Gemma offers practical insight and a clear-eyed perspective on what’s possible and what’s next.

About Gemma

Gemma Bonham-Carter is the go-to strategist for entrepreneurs who want a profitable online course business without being glued to their laptops 24/7. She’s all about building a business that fits your life, not the other way around.

Since launching her education company in 2017, Gemma has built a sustainable 7-figure business, helping over 15,000 students turn their expertise into scalable digital products. She’s the creator of AI Unlocked, host of The Course Creator Show podcast, and an expert in online courses, email marketing, and leveraging AI for smarter business growth.

Her insights have been featured in Entrepreneur, Inc., Fast Company, and in over 40 podcasts. When she’s not teaching entrepreneurs how to work less while earning more, you’ll find her chasing her kids, squeezing in a Pilates class, planning her next trip, or deep-diving into the latest AI trends.

Connect with Gemma

Website: www.gemmabonhamcarter.com

Instagram: www.instagram.com/gemma.bonhamcarter

Threads: https://www.threads.net/@gemma.bonhamcarter

LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/gemma-bonham-carter-78615943

Podcast, The Course Creator Show: https://gemmabonhamcarter.com/podcast/

Connect with Veronica

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vromney/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vromney/

If you found value in today's episode, I would appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review.

What does it take to lead a resilient business in a world that won’t stop shifting?

This week, strategist and consultant Carlyn Bushman joins me for a real, unfiltered conversation about what female founders are up against in 2025 and how to lead through the chaos with clarity, data, and confidence.

Carlyn shares her perspective on why too many women are letting external pressures like tariffs, tech disruptions, and economic uncertainty dictate the future of their businesses.

We explore how to separate emotion from strategy, why data should be your first stop when making decisions, and how to find opportunity in relationships you’ve been neglecting.

This conversation is part wake-up call, part tactical blueprint. If you’ve been feeling overwhelmed or reactive in your business, Carlyn’s insights will help you shift into a more grounded, intentional role as a founder and leader.

About Carlyn
Carlyn Bushman is the founder of Carlyn Bushman Consulting and the powerhouse behind POP Academy—a no-fluff, all-strategy learning hub for product-based business owners who are serious about scaling smart and staying profitable. With a background in corporate leadership and real-life entrepreneurial grit, Carlyn brings the kind of strategic know-how that turns marketing into momentum.

She’s obsessed with helping founders ditch the guesswork, master their numbers, and finally build the business they’ve been dreaming about—with practical tools, real talk, and data that actually drives growth.

Connect with Carlyn
https://www.instagram.com/carlynbushmanconsulting/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlynbushman/

Connect with Veronica
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vromney/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vromney/

If you found value in today's episode, I would appreciate it if you could leave a rating and review.