“Plants of the Gods” has featured dozens of episodes detailing the power, potential, and pitfalls of using hallucinogenic plants and fungi – and even frogs – for healing purposes. The Psychedelic Renaissance is in full swing — but what does it look like to the indigenous peoples themselves?

Anthropologist Dr. Joe Watkins of the Choctaw Nation offers his thoughtful perspective on these fascinating issues.

A mind-blowing mint? Salvia divinorum, a perennial herb in the mint family, has been used by traditional healers in Oaxaca, Mexico, to understand more about what ails a patient. Known for its potent psychoactive effects, Salvia can induce dysphoria and dissociation. But new scientific research is shedding light on the plant's unique effect on the brain, and its potential in treating psychiatric disorders. We continue our conversation with Dr. Chris McCurdy, a medicinal chemist and behavioral pharmacologist at the University of Florida, who is one of the foremost experts on this plant of the gods.

Show notes:

Babu, Kavita M, et al. “Opioid Receptors and Legal Highs: Salvia Divinorum and Kratom.” National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, Feb. 2008, pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18259963/.

The tropical Asian tree kratom – a member of the same botanical family that has given us both coffee and quinine – is showing great potential for successfully treating a variety of serious afflictions, from stress to opioid withdrawal. Ironically – depending on dosage – it can act either as a stimulant or a sedative. The episode features an insightful interview with Dr. Christopher McCurdy, the leading authority on this extraordinary plant of the gods.

Show notes:

“About Christopher R McCurdy.” University of Florida College of Pharmacy, pharmacy.ufl.edu/profile/mccurdy-christopher/. Accessed 17 June 2025.

Grundmann, Oliver, et al. “Not All Kratom Is Equal: The Important Distinction between Native Leaf and Extract Products - Grundmann - 2024 - Addiction - Wiley Online Library.” Wiley Online Library, 9 Oct. 2023, onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16366.

Smith, Kirsten E., et al. “The Rise of Novel, Semi-Synthetic 7-Hydroxymitragynine Products.” Wiley Online Library, 3 Dec. 2024, onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16728.

Talesnik, Dana. “McCurdy Studies Whether Kratom Can Reduce Opioid Withdrawal, Ease Pain.” National Institutes of Health, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 23 June 2022, nihrecord.nih.gov/2022/06/24/mccurdy-studies-whether-kratom-can-reduce-opioid-withdrawal-ease-pain.