Our guest this week is Mac Reynolds, CEO and co-founder of Night Street Games, making the PvP shooter Last Flag. As manager of the band, Imagine Dragons, he learned how to find magic from the grind and now applies that to a videogame. We discuss Eagle Scouts, learning to advocate and CTF - this week!

Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] Realizing How Hard It Is to Make a Game
Mac shares how his early assumptions about game development were quickly shattered after launching Night Street Games.

[00:08:00] From Managing Imagine Dragons to Founding a Game Studio
Learn how Mac transitioned from music manager to game studio co-founder with his brother Dan Reynolds, lead singer of Imagine Dragons.

[00:11:00] Building Night Street Games: A True Family Venture
Mac discusses starting Night Street Games, working with Dan, and their love for classic developers like LucasArts and Sierra.

[00:17:00] Designing Last Flag: A New Take on Capture the Flag
Hear how Last Flag evolved from a simple concept into a competitive third-person multiplayer game inspired by hide-and-seek.

[00:21:00] Innovative Gameplay: Radar Towers, Seeker Drones & Strategy
Mac breaks down the unique mechanics that make Last Flag stand out—like territory control and high-stakes flag defense.

[00:29:00] Leaving Law for Creativity and Founding a Studio
From law school to the Grammy Awards to launching a game studio, Mac reflects on choosing passion over a traditional career path.

[00:44:00] Building a Remote, Scalable Game Team from Scratch
He explains how Night Street scaled to over 50 people, balancing internal hires with tightly integrated outsourcing.

[00:56:00] Comparing Music & Games: Creativity, Community & Joy
Mac reflects on what games and music have in common—creation, community, and the magic of bringing people joy.

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe
Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain
Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain
Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Shanglan (May) Li
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505

Our guest this week is the poster boy for educational software going massively mainstream, Phillip Bouchard. Starting in the world of mainframes he created a worldwide hit on Apple II and beyond. We talk Apple getting kickstarted and science for fun and profit this week!

Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] The Legacy of The Oregon Trail: Still Remembered 40 Years Later
Philip reflects on the surprising longevity of The Oregon Trail, a game still remembered decades after its release and played by new generations.

[00:08:00] Dysentery and Game Design: Origins of a Legendary Game Over Screen
Discover how the infamous “You have died of dysentery” message became part of the 1985 version—and why it wasn’t in the original 1971 text-only release.

[00:13:00] Building the Classic Version: Small Team, Big Impact
Learn how a five-person team crafted the Apple II version that defined The Oregon Trail, combining educational goals with entertaining gameplay.

[00:20:00] From Text to Graphics: A Full Redesign for Apple II
Philip explains how the 1985 version was a complete rebuild with new code, visual assets, and expanded simulations—leaving the original codebase behind.

[00:25:00] State-Owned Software: The Story of MEC and Minnesota’s Role
Explore how Minnesota’s state-funded organization MEC developed and distributed The Oregon Trail, influencing early educational software nationwide.

[00:36:00] Instant School Success: How Teacher Demand Took Over
After initially launching only in the home market, teacher demand led to widespread adoption of The Oregon Trail in classrooms across North America.

[00:41:00] Life After Oregon Trail: From Munchers to Broderbund
Philip talks about his post-Oregon Trail career, including work on the Munchers series and his time at Broderbund and McGraw-Hill.

[00:45:00] Writing, AI Art, and Retirement: Philip’s Current Creative Life
Now retired, Philip shares his passion for writing science books, experimenting with AI art, and staying curious across new creative hobbies.

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe
Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain
Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain
Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Shanglan (May) Li
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505

Our guest this week is Adam Boyes, longtime co-CEO of Iron Galaxy and now founder of Vivrato. From Killer Instinct to The Last of Us Part I, he’s helped bring major games to life and now supports devs launching their own. We discuss putting in raunchy stuff, nemawashi and his magic deck of challenges - this week!

Episode Highlights

[00:00:00] "Shipping Will Burn You": Why Making Games Is the Best Teacher
Adam kicks off with advice for aspiring devs: build, release, and learn from failure—because real growth comes from shipping games, not just dreaming them.

[00:08:00] From Farm Town to QA: Adam’s Unlikely Start at EA Sports
Hear how Adam landed his first job in games testing NBA Live 97 and FIFA 98, despite growing up in rural Canada with dreams of working on NHL games.

[00:15:00] Modding Roots and BBS Culture: The Birth of a Developer
Adam shares how his love for PC modding and running a Jurassic Park–themed BBS shaped his curiosity and multi-discipline approach to game development.

[00:27:00] The Wild Days at Midway: Slugfest, Blitz & Studio Chaos
From canceled games to f-bomb-filled meetings, Adam reflects on Midway’s raw, chaotic culture—and how it helped him grow as a producer and leader.

[00:34:00] “Nemo Washi”: Building Consensus Like a Japanese Producer
Adam explains the Japanese business concept of Nemo Washi, and how it shaped his leadership style—building trust, alignment, and resource sharing across teams.

[00:44:00] Smashing Red Tape at PlayStation: Killing the Concept Submission Process
At Sony, Adam eliminated outdated approval systems and championed indie access, unlocking millions in dev revenue and streamlining platform entry.

[00:50:00] Iron Galaxy’s Secret Sauce: Co-Development with the Best in the Biz
Adam discusses co-developing Skyrim, Diablo III, The Last of Us Part I, and Fortnite—and how Iron Galaxy became one of the industry’s most trusted studios.

[00:56:00] Launching Vivrato: Solving the Game Industry’s Hardest Problems
Now at Vivrato, Adam's mission is to help devs at all levels—focusing on industry-wide challenges with a personalized, high-impact advisory approach.

Thank you for listening to our podcast all about videogames and the amazing people who bring them to life!
Hosted by Alexander Seropian and Aaron Marroquin
Find us at www.thefourthcurtain.com

Join our Patreon for early, ad-free episodes plus bonus content at https://patreon.com/FourthCurtain

Come join the conversation at https://discord.gg/KWeGE4xHfe
Videos available at https://www.youtube.com/@thefourthcurtain
Follow us on Twitter: @fourthcurtain
Edited and mastered at https://noise-floor.com

Audio Editor: Bryen Hensley
Video Editor: Sarkis Grigorian
Producer: Shanglan (May) Li
Art: Paul Russel
Community Manager: Doug Zartman
Featuring Liberation by 505