In this second part of our conversation with Ann Clemmer, a former state legislator, former professor, and current lobbyist, April and Glen explore Ann's views on effective strategies for working with government officials for the public good in an environment where civility and collaboration are not a given. She argues that moderation and compromise still hold promise in this environment because "parties are ultimately pragmatic - they want to win." Ann discusses avenues for citizen involvement that can influence not just electoral outcomes, but also legislation. The conversation with Ann includes her thoughts on how we can bridge political divisions (even in our families) and concludes with an anecdotal story of a legislative colleague who, in his passion, broke with legislative norms and an unwritten code of civility toward her Republican caucus on the floor of the House.

Glen and April welcome Ann Clemmer, a former state legislator and former professor at UA-Little Rock, for a conversation. Ann is currently a lobbyist with Capitol Consulting Firm. In this first part of our chat, Ann shares her early exposure as a child to politics and its continuing influence on her career choices and life. In spite of coming of age and getting elected in one of the most solidly Democrat states in the nation at the time, Ann then and since has consistently embraced a more Republican worldview. Ann describes how, as a state representative, she tried to work across divisions but found that even with support from those in her party, legislation sometimes failed due to the opposition party’s reluctance to yield a win. She describes this period of her career and the challenges faced by the minority Republican caucus as it eked forward from 28 out of 100 to the barest of majorities possible, 51 out of 100 in 2013. She shares the frustrating realities that made this kind of work difficult and her perceptions of the current tensions within Arkansas Republican party groups. As an Arkansas lobbyist/consultant now, with a large Republican majority in the General Assembly, Ann discusses the job of influencing legislative outcomes where conflicting pressures are at play. She describes with pride one project she engaged with that resulted in successful infusion of much needed resources for an especially vulnerable group of children in the state.

In the second part of our interview with Dr. Phillip Fletcher, an ordained minister, author, teacher, & nonprofit founder, April and Glen explore his political leanings, which can vary, as he finds some commonality with both Reds and Blues, depending on the issue. While he works readily with people all across the spectrum, there are points beyond which he will not collaborate, especially if they are incompatible with his "north star" of respecting the dignity and worth of every human. He also asserts that "human beings want to be better" and he tries to help them accomplish this through his active work in the community. Finally, he talks about how Arkansas somewhat surprisingly wound up being his home, despite his initial time in California and the culture shock he experienced the first time he encountered a specific Arkansas cultural touchstone.

April and Glen speak with Dr. Phillip Fletcher, an ordained minister, author, teacher, & nonprofit founder. As CEO of a nonprofit called The City of Hope Outreach, Phillip seeks to promote community development and "human flourishing" in education, housing, and nutrition, especially among the poor in central Arkansas. In this first of two parts, Phillip describes his values that led him to promote the "dignity and worth of every individual," especially with respect to education, nutrition, and housing. Phillip emphasizes the importance of finding contributions in everyone, including those persons that many would discount as either unable or unwilling to help themselves or others. He shares personal stories about how he has engaged the community in his efforts, despite many groups with differing goals or visions of how to help. Some key aspects he promotes in his work are doing the work necessary to understand the facts and beliefs important to those who may resist his efforts or views. Steeped in a philosophy of personalism, Phillip explains its origins and how it has been used in the activism of such leaders as Dr. Martin Luther King and others. Despite his strong religious beliefs, he acknowledges our society as a pluralistic culture and warns others not to let their faith lead them to become an extremist or zealot, nor to force others toward their viewpoint.

In the second part of our interview with Patricia Matthews, Executive Director of the Interfaith Center of Arkansas, April and Glen explore commonalities between interfaith approaches and those of Braver Angels' focus on political differences. Patricia then describes how she deals with issues such as the doubts of non-religious persons, potential conflicts between science and religion, and the impact on religion of extremists in the various faiths. Another element she sees as important in understanding the value of interfaith dialog came about from learning about a personal experience of a Muslim woman she worked with. This woman experienced a troubling encounter that revealed a hidden suspicion and stereotype held about her from someone she had encountered daily in her workplace for some time. In outlining some ideas for dealing with tensions that arise from differences of faith, Patricia reveals some of her personal approaches that help her maintain some peace of mind.

Glen & April talk with Patricia Matthews, an Episcopal priest and the new Executive Director of the Interfaith Center of Arkansas. In this first part of the interview, Patricia tells us about working with people of many different faiths, some of the challenges she encounters, and how they work through those obstacles. Patricia also shares with us a difficult moment she encountered earlier in her career when she was working with children of various faiths and was accused of doing the devil's work because of her respect for the actions of the kids she was working with when they engaged in rituals of their own faith. Her response to this challenge reflected what she sees as a key element in all faiths: love of God, self, and others. She notes the similarities between interfaith work and the efforts by Braver Angels to help others reach across political divides. Many approaches by both groups are similar, having a common foundation, including values much like the Golden Rule. One such instance she describes is how persons from various faiths struggled with dealing with the current issue of conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. Her response mirrors the approaches we discuss in both interfaith and Braver Angels work.

In the second part of our interview with our producer of this podcast, Glen and April explore with John O'Brien his work in the Texas public school system and his successful revamping of a curriculum for his seniors in high school language arts classes. Despite going against tradition and some of the state's requirements, John developed an entirely new and more practical exploration of literature that included many important life lessons for his students. His bold departure from tradition became popular with students and eventually was endorsed by other educators and administrators. John also describes how those working in education sometimes have their competence lead to ultimately difficult outcomes for them and the system. He offers suggestions for how the current direction in public education might be improved. John also offers a humorous story from his time working with a boss and a secretary, in which the interactions reached a crisis point, with a surprising conclusion.