In this episode, former Massachusetts Governor Jane Swift joins Jeff and Michael to explore how to rebuild the broken college-to-career pipeline. Now leading Education at Work, a nonprofit that provides work-based learning opportunities for undergraduates, Swift shares how her organization supports first-generation and Pell-eligible students with paid, career-relevant jobs during college. The conversation also dives into the policy vacuum left by congressional inaction, the role of states in driving innovation, and where bipartisan opportunities still exist in connecting higher education to the workforce. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group and the Gates Foundation.

Handshake 2025 Annual Report

0:00 - Intro

02:57 - Fixing the College to Career Pipeline

14:48 - Building Soft Skills

17:47 - The Higher Ed Policy Vacuum

24:28 - Federal Policy Enablers for Work-Based Learning

28:06 - State Governments to the Rescue?

30:46 - The Opportunity for Bipartisanship

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With higher education policy increasingly driven by executive action, Michael and Jeff explore why Congress has been largely absent from the conversation—and what that means for students and institutions. They’re joined by James Kvaal, former Under Secretary of Education under the Biden Administration, and Preston Cooper of the American Enterprise Institute, for a bipartisan discussion about stalled reauthorization of the Higher Education Act, cuts to the Department of Education, the future of international students at American colleges, and more. This episode is made with support from the Gates Foundation.

0:00 - Intro
04:44 - The Cost of Congressional Inaction
13:28 - Unlocking Movement on Higher Ed
19:53 - Areas for Bipartisan Compromise
23:15 - The Big Change We Need
28:33 - The Impact of Cuts to the Department of Education
32:58 - Immigration and International Students
38:23 - Agreement Across the Aisle
43:55 - Changes Since the Last HEA Reauthorization
48:12 - Too Much Focus on the Elites?

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In a special episode recorded at the Milken Global Institute, Jeff moderates a wide-ranging panel with higher education leaders including the presidents of Dartmouth, Stanford, UC San Diego, Yeshiva University, and the CEO of ETS. The conversation explores the crises and critiques facing higher ed—from campus protests and declining public trust to research funding and economic ROI. The leaders discuss how institutions can reaffirm their missions, serve a broader public, and restore faith in the value of a degree in an era of polarization and political scrutiny.

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In this second part from the Milken Global Institute, Jeff Selingo engages in a provocative conversation with investor and Harvard critic Bill Ackman. They discuss the challenges facing elite higher education today—from DEI rollbacks and government funding threats to what Ackman describes as Harvard's financial crisis and governance failures. Ackman argues that administrative bloat, viewpoint homogeneity, and an unsustainable business model have undermined top institutions, while suggesting Harvard's $53 billion endowment may be significantly overvalued. The discussion explores contentious issues in admissions fairness, including legacy preferences, and concludes with Ackman's vision for higher education's future, where competition from new models might force established universities to reform or risk irrelevance.

0:00 - Intro

1:04 - Federal Funding as a Lever of Influence

8:07 - Board Insulation at Harvard

13:08 - Limiting Class Size

14:25 - Fairness in Admissions

18:27 - Where We Go From Here

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In this special episode, recorded live at the ASU+GSV Summit, hosts Jeff Selingo and Michael Horn dive into the rapidly evolving higher ed landscape in President Trump’s second term. They discuss massive cuts at the U.S. Department of Education, mounting challenges around international student enrollment, and looming threats to federal research funding. They examine the broader, longer-term implications of these shifts for colleges and draw from their recent research to discuss how leaders can nurture positive campus culture during these challenging times. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group and the Gates Foundation.

Mark Schneider: Blowing Up Ed Research is Easy. Rebuilding it is ‘What Matters’

0:00 - Intro

7:32 - Cuts to the Department of Education

20:40 - Targeting International Students

23:48 - Withholding of Federal Research Grants

39:25 - Our Favorite Higher Ed Commentary

46:31 - Changing Campus Culture

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In a special crossover episode, Michael and Jeff are joined by Chronicle of Higher Education reporter Jack Stripling to discuss a recent piece by the Chronicle: a March Madness-style bracket of the most memorable higher ed controversies of the last 25 years. The trio relives infamous scandals—from Jetgate and Varsity Blues to faculty feuds, presidential meltdowns, and that $550 olive jar. Along the way, they explore what these stories reveal about rising presidential compensation, the role of athletics in university life, the erosion of shared governance, and the shifting relationship between the public and higher ed. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group and Gates Foundation.

Higher Ed Controversy Draft, College Matter from the Chronicle

0:00 - Intro
5:12 - March Madness for Higher Ed Controversies
8:53 - Controversies on the Bubble
12:30 - Jetgate
16:17 - The UVA Re-Hire
20:01 - Presidential Compensation
23:49 - The Prominent Role of Athletics in Scandals
28:42 - Who’s Watching Higher Ed?
31:38 - What Scandals Tell Us About Higher Ed Financing
38:38 - The State of the College Presidency
48:59 - Fighting Factions

In part two of their series on apprenticeships, Jeff talks with Claire Fiddian-Green, president and CEO of the Richard M. Fairbanks Foundation, about Indiana’s ambitious efforts to adapt lessons from Switzerland’s gold-standard model. They explore how Indiana is transforming high school graduation requirements, building industry-led talent associations, and designing scalable pathways that center real-world work experience. The conversation covers the challenges of shifting culture, coordinating stakeholders, and ensuring permeability between career and college tracks—all with the goal of making apprenticeships a respected and rigorous route to success after high school. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.

“No Time to Lose: How to Build a World-Class Education System State by State,” - The National Council of State Legislatures

Apprentice Nation: How the "Earn and Learn" Alternative to Higher Education Will Create a Stronger and Fairer America, - Ryan Craig

“Career and Technical Education for All,” - Daniel Curtis and Michael B. Horn

0:00 - Intro
3:32 - Focusing Indiana on CTE
5:00 - Applying Lessons Learned from Swiss Apprenticeship in Indiana
8:05 - Building an Apprenticeship System at Scale
10:58 - Adjusting Graduation Requirements
13:52 - The Keys to Successful Stakeholder Collaboration in Indiana
15:10 - Centering Permeability
19:05 - States in the Lead on Apprenticeship
21:56 - Putting Employers in the Driver’s Seat
26:30 - Carving Out Apprenticeship Pathways in High Schools
31:30 - Bringing it Back to the Why

Jeff and Michael are joined by Mushtaq Gunja, Executive Director of the Carnegie Classification Systems and Senior Vice President at ACE, to unpack the sweeping changes to the Carnegie Classifications. They explore how the new system aims to better group institutions, highlight student access and earnings, and shift incentives across funding, accountability, and rankings. The conversation dives into the implications for colleges chasing R1 status, the normative power of classifications, and whether these changes will meaningfully alter institutional behavior or simply create a new hierarchy. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group and the Gates Foundation.

2025 Institutional Classifications, Carnegie Classifications of Institutions of Higher Education

2025 Research Activity Designations, Carnegie Classifications of Institutions of Higher Education

0:00 - Intro
05:50 - The Changing Higher Ed Landscape
08:06 - The Impact of the New Classifications
10:42 - Anticipating the Normative Effects
16:55 - New Funding Criteria
18:13 - Shifting to a Focus on Outcomes
21:17 - Measuring Access and Earnings
24:53 - Encouraging Good Use of the New Classifications
34:24 - Considering the Impact on Research Dollars
40:28 - Institutional Response to Access and Earnings Designations
46:30 - What This Means for Rankings