In this conversation Marc Gafni, Zak Stein, and Ken Wilber delve into the complex nature of value, exploring its definitions, interconnectedness, and implications in various contexts. The speakers discuss the relationship between Eros, ethics, and the concept of holons, emphasizing the importance of understanding value as a field that encompasses all aspects of existence. They also touch on the balance of drives, the role of consciousness, and the evolutionary process of value, ultimately seeking to clarify the intricate dynamics that govern our understanding of value in the universe.

This conversation delves into the complex themes of value, postmodernism, and the interplay between eternal and evolving values. The speakers explore how postmodernism has influenced contemporary views on value, the significance of storytelling in understanding time, and the human role in shaping values within a cosmic framework. They discuss the philosophical implications of these ideas, drawing on historical and contemporary thinkers to illustrate their points.

The conversation explores the concept of selection and its role in the universe. It delves into the idea that selection exists at multiple levels, from physics to biology to human civilization. The discussion also touches on the question of why certain things are selected for and others are not, and how humans have the ability to override natural selection through technology. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding the values and principles that underlie selection processes in order to navigate the challenges of the metacrisis and ensure a positive future. Desire is a sacred and powerful force that moves towards value. Without a field of value, we are stuck in old scripts and pseudo forms of value. The selection criteria and story can be changed by introducing the value of clarifying desire. Imagination is the faculty that perceives the first principles and first values, allowing us to hold the image of others when they are not present. The imaginal faculty is essential for empathy and understanding. Fantasy is the ability to hold the image of another's need and imagine possible futures. The imagination is crucial for envisioning a better world and creating change.

The conversation explores the story of the Garden of Eden in Genesis. It delves into the themes of sexuality, loneliness, autonomy, and the birth of humanity. The text is seen as a journey of becoming human, with the fall and the punishments as necessary steps in the process. The discussion highlights the importance of leaving the garden and embracing the tensions and challenges of human existence. It concludes with the idea that returning to the garden is not a restorative redemption, but a utopian redemption where one has evolved and transformed.

In this conversation, Marc Gafni, Ken Wilber, and Zak Stein delve into the concept of value, particularly focusing on attention as a crucial value. They explore various dimensions of value, including its interconnectedness, the role of pleasure in ethics, and the significance of weight and gravitas. The discussion also touches on the evolution of value and the relationship between number and story, emphasizing how these concepts are intertwined in understanding reality.

In this conversation, Zak Stein and Marc Gafni discuss the concept of desire and its role in human existence. They explore the idea that desire is a fundamental aspect of reality and that it shapes our experience of the world. They also delve into the story of the Garden of Eden and its symbolic significance, highlighting the themes of desire, loneliness, and the search for connection. The conversation touches on the different aspects of desire, the relationship between power and desire, and the importance of understanding the interplay between devotion and desire. Overall, the conversation offers a deep exploration of desire and its implications for human life.

The conversation explores the concept of scripts of desire and how they shape our understanding of reality. The hosts discuss the story of the Garden of Eden as a script of desire and how different interpretations of the story reveal our own scripts of desire. They also delve into the idea that reality itself is a script of desire and that our participation in reality is expressed through our unique desires. The conversation highlights the importance of clarifying our desires and aligning them with the desires of reality. They also touch on the influence of advertising and the need to be conscious of the scripts of desire that are being imposed on us.

In this conversation, Marc Gafni, Ken Wilber, and Zak Stein discuss the relationship between desire and value. They explore different perspectives on desire, ranging from it being a degraded condition to it being a deed that can be controlled. They argue that desire is a condition and that clarifying desire is a way to honor its dignity. They also discuss the concept of value and its connection to prehension, emphasizing that value is both a product and a cause of prehension. They introduce the term 'Eros value' to describe the interplay between desire and value. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the need for a new language and grammar of value.

00:00 Exploring the Concept of Value

04:40 The Role of Holons and Desire

09:01 Chemistry as the Music of Desire

12:43 The Periodic Table of Desire Value

17:23 Understanding Will and Desire

23:00 The Dignity of Desire

31:26 Desire as a Condition

36:18 Value as a Product and Cause of Prehension

45:27 Introducing Eros Value

49:58 The Need for a New Language and Grammar of Value