A new era is unfolding in brand marketing as Greg Wise and Charlie Riley sit down with Rob Biederman of Asymmetric. As digital marketing becomes crowded and returns diminish, Rob reveals why B2B and B2C brands are rediscovering the real-world impact of out-of-home strategies. The conversation traces Rob’s experience as co-founder of Catalent, his perspective as an investor, and the partnership that brought him to OneScreen. Listeners hear firsthand why repeat buy behavior and low customer satisfaction drew Rob to the fragmented world of billboards—and what it takes to measure true ROI in the absence of digital tracking.

From pinpointing the right inventory for ABM, to the unexpected effectiveness of brand recall in the wild, Rob breaks down how marketers can defend, prove, and scale offline channels. He shares why out-of-home isn’t just for “alcoholic beverages and concerts,” but a critical lever for B2B brands targeting decision makers. The episode closes with Rob’s tactical advice for those looking to break free of online performance ceilings and create omnichannel marketing that gets noticed—and remembered.

Rob Biederman is Managing Partner at Asymmetric, an early-stage venture firm with a presence in New York City, San Francisco, and Boston. Before founding Asymmetric, Rob co-founded and was co-CEO of Catalent Technologies, a company enabling frictionless talent deployment, and currently serves as its chairman. His experience includes roles at Goldman Sachs and Bain Capital. Rob is also a Harvard Business School Executive Fellow and the author of “Re-Imagining Work: Strategies to Disrupt Talent, Lead Change, and Win with a Flexible Workforce.”

Rob’s LinkedIn

• The three phases of Rob Biederman’s career and what brought him to OneScreen
• Why out-of-home stood out for Catalent’s ABM and the challenges of buying at scale
• How digital marketing channels became “over-optimized” and why brands are returning to offline
• The power of scarcity and attention in out-of-home media
• How B2B brands are using out-of-home for brand recall and ABM
• What marketers should know about testing, tracking, and proving ROI in offline campaigns
• Tactical approaches for selling out-of-home strategies internally
• Why omnichannel and offline-first campaigns are gaining momentum

• Catalent Technologies
• Asymmetric
• Clear Channel
• Outfront
• Harvard Business School
• Book: “Re-Imagining Work: Strategies to Disrupt Talent, Lead Change, and Win with a Flexible Workforce”

Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

Aaron Keller didn’t hold back. In this episode, Beyond the Billboard co-hosts Charlie Riley and Greg Wise sit down with the Capsule co-founder to dissect the human and economic layers of brand. Aaron lays out a philosophy grounded in the idea that “brands are living members of our community”—containers of trust and meaning that shape culture and behavior. The conversation touches everything from billboard placement in Maplewood, Minnesota to the strategic suspension of merino wool products by Patagonia. He explores what happens when brands try to be everything to everyone, and why too much focus on bottom-of-funnel tactics can trigger the marketing equivalent of a restraining order. This episode is loaded with stories, sharp metaphors, and marketing reality checks from one of the most thoughtful minds in branding.

Aaron Keller is the co-founder of Capsule, a special projects agency based in Minneapolis. Capsule works with brands like Patagonia, Hydro Flask, and QuickTrip, offering research-driven design and brand strategy. Aaron is also the author of The Physics of Brand, a columnist for Twin Cities Business, and describes himself as a “curious investor.”

🔗 Aaron Keller on LinkedIn

• Why “a brand is a container of trust and meaning”
• The social role of trust—and what happens when brands lose it
• How Patagonia handled a global wool sourcing controversy
• Packaging as “a billboard you can pick up” and the high stakes of in-store design
• How Capsule used mobile research to inform Patagonia’s packaging revamp
• The tension between brand and demand gen, and how out-of-home fits into the mix
• Cultural fatigue from bottom-funnel bombardment and “marketing restraining orders”
• Launching a nightclub brand in suburban Minnesota using strategic billboards
• The hidden influence of Red Bull’s street teams and why caffeine is a creative performance enhancer

• The Physics of Brand – Book by Capsule
• Capsule – Aaron’s agency
• Liquid Death – Referenced as a cultural case study
• Red Bull – Mentioned for experiential and brand execution
• Dinner Bell – A consumer-facing dairy brand from a supplier cooperative
• MPI (Associated Milk Producers Inc.) – Parent of Dinner Bell
• Tropicana, SunChips – Referenced in packaging redesign context

Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

What happens when a creative leader builds a system that powers 30,000 web pages—without a single developer? Charlie Riley welcomes Dmitry Shamis, former global head of brand and creative at HubSpot and now co-founder of the brand agency OhSnap! They unpack why creative is making a comeback, why brand shouldn’t be a bottleneck, and how to build systems that scale with your team.

Dmitry shares how his team at HubSpot introduced modular brand tools, expanded Canva use across global teams, and used out of home to make bold, visible statements. He also explains why AI won’t replace creativity—it’s creativity’s best friend. If you’re navigating brand execution across channels or wondering how to think differently about your creative process, this conversation is a must.

Dmitry Shamis is the co-founder of OhSnap!, a brand agency focused on scalable brand systems. Previously the global head of creative and brand at HubSpot, Dmitry helped marketing teams navigate challenges around execution, scale, and visual identity. He started his career as an engineer and now brings systems thinking to brand development. Find him on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/dmitryshamis.

• Why OhSnap! focuses on brand systems, not just rebrands
• What it means for brand to enable rather than bottleneck creative teams
• The importance of adapting design to medium—transit ads vs. billboards vs. digital
• Lessons from launching HubSpot’s first out of home campaign in San Francisco
• Anecdotal signals that out of home is working (hint: text messages from friends)
• Why “brand is back” and what that means for modern marketing teams
• How AI supports, but never replaces, true creative work
• Why bad habits in digital advertising are holding teams back
• Creating time and space for creatives to do their best work
• Building scalable brand systems early to avoid downstream chaos

• OhSnap! — Dmitry's brand agency
• The Brief Creative — Dmitry’s weekly newsletter
• What's Your Process podcast — hosted by Dmitry Shamis
• LinkedIn – Dmitry Shamis
• Capsule (video tool)
• Air (digital asset management platform)
• Scrappy ABM Podcast

Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

What happens when you blend creativity, strategy, and relentless execution? Greg Wise welcomes Melissa Rosenthal, Co-Founder of Outlever, to explore the real-world meaning of brand and how media and marketing collide. Melissa shares her journey from shaping BuzzFeed and Cheddar to leading marketing at ClickUp, where bold out-of-home (OOH) campaigns turned heads and drove measurable results. Listeners will hear how she negotiated prime Times Square placements, why buses became her secret weapon, and why testing, measurement, and audience context are everything. Melissa also opens up about launching Outlever, the exhaustion and exhilaration of entrepreneurship, and why her LinkedIn strategy is her own “personal billboard.”

Melissa Rosenthal is the Co-Founder of Outlever, a company transforming brands into the number one news source in their industries. Previously, Melissa served as Chief Creative Officer at ClickUp, CMO at Insight Timer, CRO at Cheddar, and VP of Creative at BuzzFeed. Named to Forbes 30 Under 30 and Business Insider’s 30 Most Creative People Under 30, Melissa has shaped some of the most recognized and fastest-growing brands.

LinkedIn

• Melissa’s early days at BuzzFeed and Cheddar and the leap to B2B SaaS
• What “brand” really means across company stages — from reputation to perception
• How out-of-home campaigns became ClickUp’s competitive advantage
• Strategic buying: negotiating Times Square ads and selecting high-visibility placements
• Measurement tactics: from aided/unaided awareness to sales team feedback
• Navigating leadership buy-in and scaling investment in brand
• The journey from ClickUp to launching Outlever — and why timing matters
• How Melissa uses LinkedIn as her personal “billboard” and inspiration from OOH in digital strategies

• Scrappy ABM Podcast
• Momentum AI
• SurveyMonkey
• ClickUp
• Outlever
• Brex
• BuzzFeed
• Cheddar
• Insight Timer

Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

Brand isn’t just a logo or a marketing line item—it’s the foundation of your business. In this episode of Beyond the Billboard, host Greg Wise sits down with Bill Kenney, CEO and partner at Focus Lab, to unpack what it really means to build a brand that sticks. Drawing from 15+ years leading a B2B branding agency, Bill explains why brand is not a marketing expense, but a business pillar. He outlines how performance-only thinking creates a short-term hamster wheel, and how companies can break free by investing in identity, culture, and long-term affinity. From Series B tech startups to M&A transformations, Bill shares what signals show a company is ready for a rebrand—and what red flags say otherwise. For marketers trying to earn executive trust, this conversation is a roadmap to internal alignment and sustainable growth.

👤 Guest Bio

Bill Kenney is the CEO and partner at Focus Lab, a B2B brand agency helping high-growth startups and venture-backed companies define and express their boldest, most original selves. He brings more than 15 years of experience evolving businesses from generic design shops into strategic branding partners. Bill is also the author of Conquer Your Rebrand, which outlines Focus Lab’s full branding process for CMOs and CEOs.

👉 Connect with Bill on LinkedIn

📌 What We Cover

• Why performance marketing alone creates a rat race of short-term returns
• The evolution from creative-led marketing to finance-driven metrics—and back again
• How brand drives recruitment, internal alignment, and long-term customer affinity
• What brand really means beyond the website—"it's literally everything"
• Focus Lab’s analogy of branding as building a house, not just decorating one
• Key pain points that signal it’s time for a rebrand (e.g., M&A, growth-stage gaps)
• What happens when internal teams don’t have the time or alignment for brand work
• Real client stories from Totango, TrustedSec, and Marketo
• Why Bill thinks of LinkedIn as his own out-of-home billboard

🔗 Resources Mentioned

• Scrappy ABM Podcast
• Conquer Your Rebrand by Bill Kenney
• Focus Lab

Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

Independent agencies are thriving in a tough economy—but not for the reasons you might expect. Hosts Charlie Riley and Greg Wise sit down with Daniel Weiner from "You Should Talk To" to explore why nimbleness and speed give smaller agencies a real edge. Daniel shares sharp insights into what brands often misunderstand about agency relationships and the specific challenges marketers face when trying to communicate value to executives. This episode dives into the tension between full-service solutions and specialization, the return to brand storytelling, and why not every marketing effort needs to be a win to be worth it.

Daniel Weiner is the founder of "You Should Talk To," a service helping brands pair with agencies that match their specific needs. He focuses on connecting marketers with independent agencies based on relationship quality and expertise, not just reputation or size. Daniel brings deep knowledge from both the agency and brand sides, giving him a unique lens into what makes these partnerships work. LinkedIn

• The current landscape for independent agencies in today’s economy
• Why nimbleness and speed are key advantages of independents
• The tension between specialization and full-service offerings
• Common misconceptions brands have about agencies
• What challenges brands face in today’s marketing landscape
• The shift back toward brand marketing and storytelling
• Accepting that not all agency work will succeed, and why that’s normal
• How marketers struggle to explain marketing realities to executives

Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

In this episode of Beyond the Billboard, hosts Charlie Riley and Greg Wise welcome Chantelle Rapport, CMO and EVP of Growth at Upstart, to discuss the evolving landscape of brand and performance marketing. They explore how brand extends beyond marketing campaigns to encompass every customer touchpoint, why the separation between brand and performance is artificial, and strategies for measuring long-term brand investments.

Best Moments:

• (00:50) Introduction to Upstart, an AI marketplace connecting borrowers with lenders
• (02:28) Chantelle’s belief that brand and performance marketing are interrelated, not separate
• (04:50) Internal marketing’s role in brand building across the entire organization
• (07:44) Navigating conversations with CFOs about investing in brand marketing
• (12:48) The scrutiny marketers face compared to other business functions
• (16:42) How consumer behavior is changing, leading to digital marketing fatigue
• (20:40) The impact of AI on search and consumer research behaviors
• (23:44) The resurgence of creativity in marketing and its importance in brand building
• (25:09) How AI and data will enhance traditional creative marketing approaches

Guest Bio

Chantelle Rapport is the Chief Marketing Officer and EVP of Growth at Upstart, an AI-powered lending platform that uses over 1,500 variables in its underwriting process to expand access to credit. With a self-described “nontraditional” marketing background that gives her a more analytical perspective, Chantelle oversees brand marketing, performance marketing, creative, and growth product at Upstart. She believes in taking a holistic approach to brand building that spans every customer touchpoint and experience.

Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

“Mobile ads with real-world measurement.” That’s the core of what James Heller created with Wrapify, the out-of-home platform that wraps rideshare and delivery vehicles in brand messaging — and makes it measurable.

In this episode of Beyond The Billboard, Greg Wise, Co-founder of OneScreen.ai, and Charlie Riley, OneScreen’s Head of Marketing, talk with James about turning everyday drivers into moving billboards, Wrapify’s evolution from an idea to a nationwide platform, and how it’s challenging traditional perceptions of OOH.

James shares how he went from running global digital marketing for a cloud division of a Fortune 50 company to cashing out his 401(k) to make the Wrapify vision real. He breaks down why Wrapify’s success isn’t just about the cars — it’s about attribution, media measurement, and the ability to retarget based on physical ad exposure. If you’ve ever wondered what happens when creative marketing meets hard data, this one’s for you.

James Heller is the CEO and Founder of Wrapify, the nation's leading rideshare and mobility advertising platform. He’s a digitally native marketer who previously led global digital marketing for a cloud division of a Fortune 50 company. With Wrapify, he built a way for brands to scale out-of-home across rideshare and gig delivery vehicles, paired with data visualization, attribution, and retargeting capabilities.

LinkedIn Profile

• How Wrapify turns Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, and Instacart vehicles into mobile ad platforms
• Why brands use Wrapify not just for the cars but also for measurement and attribution
• The origins of Wrapify and why James left a Fortune 50 job to build it
• Challenges in traditional out-of-home: “great for top-of-funnel, hard to measure”
• The rise of the gig economy and the gap James saw in OOH advertising
• Using real-world exposure to trigger retargeting

James Heller

Wrapify

Did you enjoy today’s episode? Make sure to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an update! If you found this conversation insightful, share it with a fellow marketer who should think more about out-of-home advertising. For more insights and tips, connect with us on LinkedIn!

Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.